Is hell real?

Van · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:06 pm Post subject:

First, the bible teaches that there is a hell. The Bible teaches that everyone not granted mercy will be punished for their deeds.
The Bible teaches that those who go to hell face eternal punishment. This includes being permanently separated from God. Hence, the reference to hell as eternal darkness.

The Bible teaches that God is just, so hell is just. To assert that hell is unjust is knock down a non-existent strawman - a hell of your own creation to justify your own rebellion.

shoshin · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:55 pm Post subject:

A rebellion against what?
The whole point is that an agnostic does have faith in SOMETHING... (s)he is just not sure which to believe.

Why exactly, should I believe in Christianity over being a muslim or a pagan? What reasons are there?
For someone who is not being shown proof of anything, but would very much like proof, and believe whole-heartedly if they were given it... why are we cast aside, with no regard for our eternal souls?
Why are we demanded faith by multiple religions?

**Analogy**
You awake in a room. You did not choose to be put here, you are just there, deal with it.
This room has 3 doors. One of these doors leads to eternal salvaion. The other 2 - eternal damnation.
All 3 doors look the same to you. Each door is label "Salvation."
Now, without any help from any force other than yourself (including God), which door do you choose?
Welcome to the world of an agnostic.
Choose wisely.
**End Analogy**

Van · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:07 pm Post subject:

The subject of this thread is: is hell real. Now if we can all stay with that subject it would be helpful. There is no need to run through all the standard atheist arguments on every thread.

Hell is real. Hell is just. We should do our best to avoid it. Start with what is written on your heart concerning integrety and kindness. This will minimize your punishment in hell, even if you choose to not seek mercy.

shoshin · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:29 pm Post subject:

I am not denying hell is real.
I cannot say either way, being an agnostic.
That does not, however, help me avoid it, apparently.
I live my life by a strict code of ethics...
But apparently, the fact that I have not been accepted by whatever deity there is, shows that this does not matter...

Why is it that you believe in God?
What keeps you believing?
Do you have proof? Or a feeling of being loved? Or a hunch?
What is it? And if its the bible...
What keeps you believing in that?
And why, when I was a christian, who believed in God with everything I had, did I feel rejected from the start? Why did I feel no love when I thought of God, or prayed, or sang church songs with my peers?
Why was I not awarded the same feeling to keep my faith?

Assuming hell is real (stay with me here - try not to point out that hell is real again, please...), why are agnostics doomed to go there?(I mean why are we doomed to commit the sin of non-belief, NOT why do we go to hell because of this sin)
Refer to the analogy (which is the view point from an agnostic, if hell is real) for what I mean.

And for the record - agnostic & athiest = not the same thing
A typical athiest argument would be "there is no hell"
This is an agnostic question of "Why am I given no proof, to help me choose religions; since this dooms me to hell?"

****END NOTE****
Again - for the record - This post is not arguing with you. This is a theoretical post where I am (are you listening?) AGREEING WITH YOU in theory.
Did you hear that?
I'm am NOT asking a question which needs a "hell is real" or a "you are going to hell" response.
I understand you believe this. If you feel the need to post "because you are going to hell!" or "hell is real" or anything so basic...
please either
a) do not respond to this post
or
b) re-read this post, as you have not read it properly [/i]

RevJP · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:34 pm Post subject:

Faith - to all of the above.

shoshin · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:48 pm Post subject:

What colour is the sky?
467!?

If you are going to answer questions...
please read them..
Faith is a valid answer to maybe two or three of the questions...
and those ones were meant to be a cluster...

Maybe this will help... THIS IS THE MAIN QUESITON:
Why am I given no proof, to help me choose religions; since without this, I am doomed to hell?

Van · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:49 pm Post subject:

shoshin · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:07 pm Post subject:

Wow... that was a very wordy way of saying "hell is real" and "you are going to hell."

This question just keeps getting shorter -

Why am I given no proof?

Everything else in the big post is explaining what this is asking...
But THIS is the question...

The questions is just below here
#######
Why am I given no proof? <------ ANSWER THIS ONE!!!!!
#######
That question... right up there....

Van · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:21 pm Post subject:

Wow, that was a non-responsive response. Why not discuss what I posted, rather than contining to post the standard atheist questions, one after the other, as if we were actually discussing something.

Attributing the idea that "you are going to hell" to me is a directly false statement. There can be no discussion with integrity. What I said was you will end up in hell if you do not obtain mercy. God has mercy on whom he has mercy. Therefore I do not know if you will end up in hell.

If you want to distort what I say so that you can knock down straw man that you create, there is no point in discussion.

"Why am I given no proof." Why should you be given proof? Who was given proof? What proof was given? Why do you think you should receive proof?

Picture a guy in a foxhole in WWII. He asks, I will stick my head up and provide covering fire for my brothers if you can give me proof I will not be shot. Yes, it is a way to live a life, but it is nothing to write home about. Wink

admin · Beloved Admin Joined: 28 Sep 2000 Posts: 88

*eating popcorn*

RevJP · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 2:28 pm Post subject:

Pardon me, but I DID answer your question. The answer is FAITH.

To believe something that has been proven requires nothing more than breathing. To believe in something without proof requires faith. We are saved by grace through faith...

One more:

John the Baptist · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:02 pm Post subject:

[quote="shoshin"]Wow... that was a very wordy way of saying "hell is real" and "you are going to hell."

This question just keeps getting shorter -

Why am I given no proof? (removed for proof)

*******
John here:
Who said that only one of all three doors are the right choice to escape hell? Crying or Very sad

Yes, Christ is still the way, yet we cannot limit His working to save! Smile

Acts 4:12

There will be folks saved without even knowing of the door concept as we Know HIM. Yet, know Him they do! See these in Rom. 2:14-*15? These by the way are 'seen' as the Epistle (letter) of Christ! Not a mere profession. 2 Cor. 3:3

Zathrus · Little Guppy Joined: 05 Sep 2003 Posts: 31

Van · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:22 pm Post subject:

While it is reasonable to accept the possiblity that our understanding of hell described in physical terms is metaphorical, such that fire, flame, lake of fire might only picture the reality, to say that eternal torment is metaphorical does not follow. The Devil and his false prophet face eternal torment based on Revelation 20:10.

Those that accept the mark of the beast face the wine of the wrath of God mixed full strength, which I think means they will get some form of torment for some period of awareness because they will get no rest day and night. And the consequence of their punishment, the smoke of their torment will last forever, even if their awareness of their punishment ends with the destruction of their body and soul based on Revelation 14:9-11.

And finally, those in the resurrection of the lost, at the Great White Throne Judgment will be judged for their deeds and punished and destroyed in the lake of fire, which is the second death. Revelation 20:13-15

John the Baptist · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: None of the above