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norm
Not So Newbie
Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 11:35 am Post subject: Second thoughts |
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1. Why did God condemn Adam/Eve and mankind... to death and eternal suffering because someone ate the wrong apple in the Garden of Eden?
2. Why didn't God just forgive people? Perhaps scrafice a few sheeps as opposed to crucify Jesus? Crucifying a person is a pretty sad thing to do - even if you have the reasons to, you don't do this sort of thing.
3. Why did God condemn Moses, deny him of entrance to the Promised Land, for getting pissed off once (stiking the rock, Numbers 20:12)?
4. Why did God picked Isreal over the rest of us? What makes slaughtering of our Egyptian any more legimate than slaughtering of Israelites? Is God a racist? |
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Van
Growing Guppy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 44
Location: San Clemente California
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| norm wrote: | | 1. Why did God condemn Adam/Eve and mankind... to death and eternal suffering because someone ate the wrong apple in the Garden of Eden? |
Why did God tell Adam that Adam could eat of any of the fruit in the garden except of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in that day, you shall surely die. I think God set out before mankind the choice between life and death. Adam chose death.
Why did God condemn all mankind for the sin of Adam? Sin has consequences, and Adam's sin created a separation between our holy God and sinful mankind.
Why did God condemn mankind to eternal suffering? He didn't. Eternal punishment, eternal darkness, eternal separtion from God, yes, and punishment for the deeds we have done, with perfect justice.
| norm wrote: | | 2. Why didn't God just forgive people? Perhaps scrafice a few sheeps as opposed to crucify Jesus? Crucifying a person is a pretty sad thing to do - even if you have the reasons to, you don't do this sort of thing. |
God has mercy on whom He has mercy. To have mercy on some does not undercut the just punishment all others receive. Just as the sin of Adam had consequences, those consequences are cancelled out when God accepts Christ's sacrifice for our sins. When we place our heart-felt trust in Christ, God evaluates our heart and based on His sovereign judgement, baptizes those that truly love God and trust in Christ, into Christ. So by one mans sins all were condemned, by the sacrifice of one man, all mankind was reconciled to God.
| norm wrote: | | 3. Why did God condemn Moses, deny him of entrance to the Promised Land, for getting pissed off once (stiking the rock, Numbers 20:12)? |
Sin has consequences in this life and well has eternal consequences. The message that we should pay attention to God's word, and not arrogantly twist or distort it, is timeless. Who are we, the creation, the clay to establish rules for our creator, the potter. The hue and cry "that's not fair" is a smokescreen for prideful rebellion.
| norm wrote: | | 4. Why did God picked Isreal over the rest of us? What makes slaughtering of our Egyptian any more legimate than slaughtering of Israelites? Is God a racist? |
God reconciled all mankind to himself through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and God sent His Son for this very purpose. Therefore you, and anyone else has opportunity placed before us by the gospel of Christ.
Why did God initially bring His salvation plan to mankind through His chosen people? That was God's chosen method, for God has mercy on whom He has mercy, and that does not undercut the justice all others receive.
God is not a racist because there is no distinction in Christ. Godlessness is racist, tribalism and the like. |
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norm
Not So Newbie
Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 10:25 pm Post subject: Tell your own son that he'd be crucified. |
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"Why did God tell Adam that Adam could eat of any of the fruit in the garden except of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in that day, you shall surely die. I think God set out before mankind the choice between life and death."
Here's a suggestion. Put an apple in your living room. Tell your 3 years old son (Pete) if you eat it, you will be punished by death. Then tell your second son, (John) if Pete eats the apple, you'd crucify him to pacify your own anger. And tell Pete that you love him.
I've been to Church for twenty years. I'm looking for "real" answers. Bible seems like a testimony to God's problem with his anger management. |
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norm
Not So Newbie
Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 10:26 pm Post subject: If he's a vegetarian... |
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He could have just sacrified a few *** "sheeps" *** - not Jesus. And certainly not to commit atrocity like crucifying somebody.
*** "Banana", is rather offending, my mistake.
Last edited by norm on Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Van
Growing Guppy
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 44
Location: San Clemente California
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Norm, it seems you believe that going to church for twenty years qualifies you to judge God. Who are you, O man...
Just because you cannot see the purpose behind God's revealed actions, does not suggest an absense of purpose. You have a choice, choose wisely. Trust in Christ or lean on your own understanding.
Your idea of what God should consider an acceptable covering for your sins (bananas) may seem just dandy to you, but seems to me to be mere self justification. The ol' "I don't get it, so God is wrong". God is just and Jesus' sacrifice was the just for the unjust. In God's sovereign economy that was the payment.
The question you have got to ask yourself is why did you go to church for twenty years, rather than trust in Christ for eternity? |
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norm
Not So Newbie
Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:04 am Post subject: No, you sound more like a judge than I do. |
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| I'm here because I hope there're more sensible people who wouldn't consider looking at the fact is a waste of time. |
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norm
Not So Newbie
Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:22 am Post subject: Move on please. |
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Quote "Just because you cannot see the purpose behind God's revealed actions, does not suggest an absense of purpose. You have a choice, choose wisely. Trust in Christ or lean on your own understanding."
In case you don't notice, I'm not making a statement here. I'm trying to understand objectively, "What's he doing?"
Quote "Who are you, O man..."
I'm a person with a question, but without an answer. A hope that God is real. And a hope that there's someone with an answer, a real answer.
Move on to another thread, please, if you don't mind. If you don't, I will. I'm not here to engage in an argument.
Last edited by norm on Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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paul
Little Goldfish
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Tell your own son that he'd be crucified. |
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| norm wrote: | "Why did God tell Adam that Adam could eat of any of the fruit in the garden except of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in that day, you shall surely die. I think God set out before mankind the choice between life and death."
Here's a suggestion. Put an apple in your living room. Tell your 3 years old son (Pete) if you eat it, you will be punished by death. Then tell your second son, (John) if Pete eats the apple, you'd crucify him to pacify your own anger. And tell Pete that you love him.
I've been to Church for twenty years. I'm looking for "real" answers. Bible seems like a testimony to God's problem with his anger management. |
one question for you ;do you want the truth or do want to try and corrupt the truth?
Gods word is the truth ,understanding it in your frame of mind is probably impossible.
if you are willing to accept it as truth and as the word of our Almighty Creator ,and yes to discard the currupted truth the world as taught you ,you may well find the truth and answers to so many things that a created being can't offer you.
your apple story ,think of it like this ;you yourself are a king you tell those who you have rule over not to eat of this tree ,you let them be tempted to give them their own choice to serve you honestly and to see how loyal and genuine they really are towards you.
you have the power to make them kings one day ,but you don't want a dishonest ,disloyal person who would have no respect and would misuse the power you could give them.
you gave them everything they could possibly want or need in total perfection ,but straight away they took someone elses word over yours (who had given them all things and who was their king)
they were offered to be like you and have your power by disobeying you (why would they want this when you had forbidden it ,would n't it mean they wanted the same power and knowledge as you but wanted to go against you ,so what would that make them once they had this power wouldn't it make them your enemy and wouldn't they want to destroy you and be greater than you ,they obviously didn't want to take orders from you so if they were your equal what then?)
because of these disobidient disloyal people their children can also not be given this power as they come from them so why would they be any different.
but maybe some do seek to please you and prove their love for you.
you being a loving and forgiving king let these people multiply enough and then send your only son as one of them ,he shows them how it should be done in every way and suffers humiliation and the death of a blasphemer of you with these people mocking and hating him and never beleiving He is your son when he showed them and taught them so in every way ,but they chose to be blinded from the things you had always taught them by things that they had made true of themselves twisting your laws so that they never really served them out of respect for you but made them their own laws ,laws of themselves judging others for disobeying you and your laws when they themselves were more guilty making themselves to somehow be king and able to judge others when they themselves never giving you the Love you'd always asked of them.
you gave your son as a sacrifice to these people to show your love for them ,and to offer them a place in your kingdom.
when these people still reject you ,should you still offer them your kingdom after all you've done for them?
one thing i missed out you've demonstrated you wrath in the past when they chose to completely disrespect and disobey you being filled with evil thoughts towards each other choosing to ignore you and fullfill all kinds of evil thoughts disrtespecting every gift you had given them.
don't forget God is much more than a King ,He is the Almighty loving always just and always wise Creator.
do you think you could somehow rule this earth more lovingly and just than God?
He 's given us all and offers us even more all He wants is the respect and love He undoubtly deserves which we as selfish humans are not capable of giving Him ,we beleive and trust in His sacrifice to wash us clean of our selfish selves and except His love then able to live a life that will inherit us a place in His glorious kingdom.
God bless.
paul |
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paul
Little Goldfish
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:37 am Post subject: |
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obviously there's much more to this story than i can explain in one post ,it takes the whole bible to explain all these thinks.
i've tried to show it from our point of view if we were in Gods position ,but that's not possible as we're not in His position and are definetly not God.
you have to realise everything God does and has done is for us to inherit is kingdom.
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
this is what the whole bible tells us.
God bless. |
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