Do Infants Go to Heaven When They Die?

RevJP · Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:30 am Post subject:

A couple of things keep running through this thread, namely the 'age of accountabilty'. To be completely blunt: There is no such thing biblically. It is a nice notion to think that there is an age when one can suddenly become held accountable, but the scirptures do not support that.

Scriptures tell us that God made a perfect creation, Adam and Eve blew it and from that point on we were seperated from Him. We are born into that state of seperation, unable to commune with God. Jesus paved the way for us, He basically opened the doors to the Godly adoption center and through Him we are able to be adopted back into the family of God. We are able to once again commune with God. Until that happens, until we accept Christ as Lord and Savior and become the sons and daughters of God, we are seperated from Him. This means that if we die in that seperated state, we are seperated from Him for eternity.

I would love for someone to show me scripture which supports an age of accountability, really I would. I have not seen it, but since so many denominations teach it they must have a reason. Mustn't they?

t-shirtsnjeans · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

I think the age of accountability (howdy by the way) comes when one knows right from wrong and deliberately does wrong despite consequences. How early is that? I really don't know. It could be as one is coming into childhood from infancy, or from childhood to puberty and adulthood. I do know that Jesus said "Unless you come to me as a child," and I still find it hard to really understand what He means by that, unless it is innocense, and at what age do we lose that?
When Adam and Eve sinned they were adults, created as adults (I think at least since God created 'Man' and 'Woman'?) and then through the first sins the curse of pain of childbirth and sweating of the brow came into affect.
But to think that a child who died from an illness or disease, or through accident, wouldn't go to Heaven would seem awefully cruel to me, I can't see God doing that.
I made a point on another forum about how we come into the world knowing God and His word, but if we can compare this to a new computer. It is loaded with all the information and hardware it needs to do the job it was designed for. Then as time goes on and new programs are loaded, spyware is thrown in, adware is sneaking all over, viruses are dumped in, and all of the cruelty of the outside world corrupts the hard drive and all the workings of the computer to the point that the computer doesn't even know what is right or wrong. It gets fragmented, corrupted, mangled, and begins shutting down from any input.
Comparing that to man, babies are given the Word of God through the Spirit, and we as the world tend to corrupt the workings of the child to the point that the child doesn't know right from wrong. Look at the countries where hate is taught and preached, a machine gun is given to five year olds, and they are taught to kill all non-whateverreligions, and they think that they are right to murder those trying to free them from the ranks of evil.
Wow, to think that my mother and father had siblings that died at birth or at a young age only to not get into Heaven, hmm, if that's the case I really don't know if I want to go there.
I personally think that until a child/person (this could go for those of lowered mental capacity to understand sin or to be able to differentiate sin from right or wrong) goes to Heaven in the event of death if they are not of capacity of accountability.

BTW, glad to be here, God bless Wink

RevJP · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:57 pm Post subject:

t-shirtsnjeans · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

I don't know of Biblically supportive scriptures, but are there any supporting other views of where children or babies go? I would like to think it is the 'default' setting until we learn about sin and are at the age of accountability.
The Church of Christ doesn't use instruments in their services only because it wasn't mentioned in the New Testament, but music was used throughout all the Old Testament, so music for praise to God was (in my opinion) the 'default' setting so Jesus didn't have to mention musical instruments as praise only because they were in use all the time anyway.
I'll look into references in this, I just don't think God would punish the innocent into eternal damnation as punishment.

Nobby · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:01 pm Post subject:

t-shirtsnjeans · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

Got the av on the site. I'll check for one here too. (updated my profile, I clicked on 'more avatars', music/guitar, and there it was! too cool!)

Am I to understand that if a baby is born, and has yet to be able to speak, that we ask "Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior" and baptize them just so they can go to Heaven because they won't go any other way?
I still don't get it.

t-shirtsnjeans · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

Okie dokie, through just a short research of the Bible, in Mark 10:13-16, People were bringing little children to Jesus to have Him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this, He was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the Kingdom of God blongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who willl not receive the Kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it!"
And He took the children in His arms, put His hands on them and blessed them.

That, to me, is proof positive that the children are bound for the Kingdom of God before they become delved deep into sin and rebellion.

RevJP · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:29 am Post subject:

t-shirtsnjeans · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

2 Timothy 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16. All Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Also the scriptures I posted on abortion of how God knew us before we were born as in Psalm 139:15 My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, Your eyes saw my unformed body.

But then we go back that there is no scriptural backing against abortion in the views of those who refuse to see it, so in that darkened light I suppose that the same that can't see abortion as sin also can't see that God has a place in His Kingdom for the children who are not yet of accountability that pass away from this world.

What else do we need as proof? I don't know, I've supplied my evidence through the Book we all claim has all the answers through the Holy Spirit. If there is other scripture stating otherwise perhaps we could see it posted?

RevJP · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject:

T, your 'evidence' then proves the argument for seperation from birth, or beyond.

How do you reconcile the two main premises you present and the scriptures present, with your non-biblically supported claim that there is an 'age of accountability'?

1) We are known to Him even before we were formed in the womb.

2) For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

If premise 2 holds that all are guilty of sin (seperated from God), which no one can deny is scriptural truth by the way. Then premise 1 necessarily means that we are all seperated from Him from before our beginings. Where then does an 'age' come in? Where is the scritpure that says: For all have sinned, with the exception of children up to a certain age, and fall short of the Glory of God.?

The problem is, that scripture does not support that which we would like it to, no matter how upsetting that is.

t-shirtsnjeans · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

Rev, is there anything that I've stated that you agree with? Or am I just so completely stupid that I should just give up and give in?
It's getting frustrating that I am getting shot down and apparently shut down only because I don't have an ordained title to my name. People ask for Biblical references and then it isn't good enough, so I offer what I believe to be truth, but it isn't good enough.
Are you teaching others in Church (if you are a pastor) these things you hold as truth regardless of what Biblical backing they have or lack?
The questions come up, I look for references to Biblical accounts, find them, post them, but it seems that those that have ears don't hear, and those that have eyes don't see.
Is this one of the points where if you want my opinion you'll give it to me?

I have a song I have been working on called "The Covers Of My Bible" where the pages that man no longer needs are torn out, and in the end all that is left is the cover of the Bible, no pages left.
I'm still a strugling Christian, and if my Bible isn't good enough what chance do I have? Are we all doomed to eternal damnation? If so then why try?
Have you, or any others, looked up the references I provided? Or is this forum as well as others for the highest of IQ's and the most extreme of righteousness or evil?

Oh well. I'ma gonna go read. God bless.

shepreach · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject:

you might want to look at ezekiel 18:4 & 18:20.

t-shirtsnjeans · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

RevJP · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:56 am Post subject:

T, it is truly sad that you get so offended by my asking the tough questions. You can beleive what you choose to believe, I have no problem with that. I'm simply asking for a deeper look into what you assert from a biblical standpoint.

Additionally, if you would care to re-read what I have posted you will see I am simply asking for what scripture says, not doctrine, not belief, as I strive hard to base my beliefs upon scripture and scripture first and foremost, particularly when doctrine does not seem to jive with the whole of scripture.

golfjack · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:47 pm Post subject: reply

T. I most certainly agree with you on this debate about whether a little child goes to heaven. Jesus did say come to me as like a little child. To me, this means that we are saved by grace through faith. Does not a little child have blind faith? Of course. I, like you, don't put much faith in so-called thelogians that try to mince intellectual words with the truth of the Gospel. I will not listen to a United reformed thelogian, which believe what J.P. is presenting. Yes, we do have people with doctoarates in Thelogy. For example: Dr. David Jerimiah and Dr. Fredrick C. Price who preach and teach in simplicity and humility. Anyway, thought I would give my input.

May God bless, golfjack