Division of the Body

RevJP · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:04 am Post subject: Division of the Body

My pastor once gave a sermon on things which were 'worth' dividing the body of Christ. Actually the sermon was more along the lines of those things over which are not worth dividing the body.

What are your thoughts? Which doctrines are important enough to warrant a division in the body of believers?

Abortion, homosexuality, Jesus' Deity? TULIP? The Sabbath?

What doctrinal topics are you willing to support and defend so vehemently that you would seperate yourselves from the body of beleivers, or drive other believers from that fellowship? Additionally, what reasons do you have, scripturally, for chosing that defense?

t-shirtsnjeans · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

I don't know about 'seperation' of the body, more like 'not letting the right hand know what the left hand was doing' makes more sense.
The problems I've seen is that with 'churches' as being a certain group constantly going to one building at one time over and over there turns out to be too many 'chiefs' and not enough 'indians'. Everyone wants to be the 'head' but noone wants to be the 'feet', many want to be the 'mouth' but no one wants to be the 'ear'.
I finally left the Church home I was a member due to the 'too many chiefs' and those that weren't really in a position to be the 'head' trying to do so. They don't see their spiritual gifts as parts of the Body of Christ. I've visited other Churches and see the 'structural' part that there are designated 'body parts' and each is found to be a particular part and they are placed in that part so they fulfill the maximum abilities they contain, and those that don't work in that part and only hinder those abilities are placed where they fit. Hands weren't designed to do the walking, the eyes weren't designed to urinate, and the ears weren't designed to speak, so the 'hands are put with the hands' the 'feet with the feet' etc.

I think personally that limiting ourselves to one 'Church building' limits our spiritual gifts also. Being a 'member' of a part of the body can lead to problems if one is not meant to be there. Just imagine trying to put shoes on your hands to try to build classrooms, or pants on our head to speak to others the Word.
Also, the division is the 'temptations' of evil that work into the body like viruses and infections. This can cause the body to break down or it can build the defenses. But they need to be dealt with through prayer and going to the 'brother' that sins against you, or causes the infection or virus. Prayer is the 'antibiotic' that helps keep the body strong.

One of our biggest problems is that if a person is the 'infection or virus' others take it that they must cut themselves off as the 'offending hand' or 'spiting nose' and the 'virus and infection' takes over. "Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one." We take that to mean (in most cases of human nature) 'remove me from the presence of the evil one', not 'remove the evil one'. It could be that way, but either way we tend to take the wrong actions and use our own strengths and not God's strength to take care of problems.

The 'walls' need to be torn down of the buildings and gather together in the open as Christ often did in His ministry. In fact I was with a ministry a few years ago and that's what we did, we took the Word to the people, mostly homeless, fed them and gave them music and Word every Sunday. To most that was the only Church they saw, the only Word they heard, or the only music the felt.

Spiritual gift workshops are a handy tool to find what we are capable of as far as the Body of Christ. We all have the gifts of the Spirit, but some gifts shine more than other gifts. I was told that I had the gift of discernment and Apostleship as my strongest points with a few others closely behind. (I'm still trying to figure out the 'Apostle' thing Confused

)

RevJP · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:13 pm Post subject:

Good post T, very agreeable POV, but I don't understand how it pertains to the question at hand. Am I missing something?

t-shirtsnjeans · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

Perhaps I am. I was reading your post like the division of the Churches or the Body as the different denominations, or like 'First This' or 'Second That Church', or divisions within a Church.

I had a former pastor in a meeting one time and I suggested that we get a van or a small bus to pick up youth and young children for Sunday School and perhaps their parents would see that and want to come also. At the time our youth was very minimal in numbers and my suggestion was shunned as "That's a Baptist thing, they do bus ministries......." I was so upset at that but that wasn't the last 'straw' for me. That particular Church does now pick up children with a van that was donated (as I wanted to do those years ago).
Or I hear 'It's a Catholic,' or 'Pentecostal', or 'Methodist', whatever thing, and that our little Church just doesn't do that stuff. Our part of the body was the 'constipated bowels' in my opinion and that was the reason I left.
Eventually a 'stool softener' was added and now the outreach is a little better but there could be so much other stuff done. So I thought that I would go find a Church that could utilize my gifts (whatever they may be) or just do my music ministry and have 'Church' outside of the walls or barriers of what particular cliques or denominations (I almost spelled 'demonisations' Shocked

) would allow be done.
I'll reread your post and see if I'm on track. Most of the time I'm sidetracked by my own whirlwind of thoughts in my iddy biddy head. Confused

Okie dokie, reread it. And 'doctrine' is my line that I draw. If man adds to or takes away from the Bible in order to fulfill a selfish need to make a Church run or be a part of a Church, and doesn't go along at all with the Bible I will challenge it and find where I'm wrong, right, misunderstood, misunderstand, etc.
Catholicism is my main gripe, that Mary is worshiped and prayed to for 'divine' intervention pushing Christ out of the way, they have 'Fathers', and ranks of the 'soldiers' etc, that don't go with the Biblical teachings. Jesus told us in Matthew that we are not to call anyone 'Father' for we have only one Father in Heaven. He also told us that "No one goes to the Father but through Me," and that kinda kicks Mary to the side in our relationship to God, so instead of asking saints to pray for us, or Mary, or some 'father this' or 'bishop that' or saying 38 'Hail (or hale?) Mary's' in order to be forgiven.............
So I go back to my Bible and see if it is Biblical teaching, if Christ said it, if God said it, or if it is merely man saying what we are supposed to do in order to be a 'member' of the Church regardless of denomination.
I was playing for a little Baptist Church out in the country one weekend, and at alter call they asked who wanted to join their little Church, and then they would 'vote' on it if the person/s would be accepted into the Church. I couldn't go for that, it's not Biblical to be 'voted' in by anyone, it is up to us to accept Christ, not for man to accept us!

Awrighty then, is that what you meant? I do tend to wander a bit don't I Wink

RevJP · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:11 pm Post subject:

Wander.... yes indeed.

Let me ask this: Is divorce a subject which should divide Christians? How about predestination? Premillenialism? Baptism? Women Pastors? The Diety of Christ?

Which of those subjects, would you say, warrants a division among the body of Christ, and why?

t-shirtsnjeans · Tadpole Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

Perhaps those without sin casting stones?

If sins are condoned then sin will destroy the Church. Embracing cancer eventually leads to death.

I was skimming through Scripture looking for another subject and ran across Luke 12:51, (Jesus said) "Do you think that I came to bring peace on Earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52, From now on there will be five in one family divided against each othere, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughterr against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

So this division may be that of the body?

nannabug · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:24 pm Post subject: