Bible discussion on 20/20 episode about Transgender Children

LuvGod

Okay, this is really wierd. I didn't see the show myself. But last weekend my husband's grandmother saw this show. here's a link to the details. http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3088298&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
It's about kids who think they were born into the wrong body.

We got into a discussion about it and I just had to walk away before it turned into an arguement. They call it gender identity disorder. (I believe that humans turn everything into a disorder these days. An excuse for what is wrong so they can try to find some magic pill, rather than trying to solve the problem themselves.) I personally have chronic lateness disorder. lol Smile

) To make it short... her opinion is that "those poor children were born in the wrong body." I said that "God doesn't make mistakes." She pointed out that it's a disorder, just like a relative of ours who was born without an arm. I told her that I believe the devil is trying to make them and their parents think this, to drive them to sin and keep them away from God. First they will believe it, dwell on it, eventually get a sex change, etc. What's the difference of the gay person dressing like the opposite sex but haveing relations with the same sex? To me no difference. I told her that I cannot condone it, accept it, etc. because acceptance of sin is why the world is the way it is today. 50 years ago, no one, not even non-christians would accept the nudity, cursing, and open-air sin that we accept today. They would have been appaled at what we let our children watch today (without even realizing that it is sin.) We have become accustomed to it, even immune to it.

Oh, and if it's a disorder, why arent they treating it. with therapy, medicine, whatever...instead of accepting it as "this child was born into the wrong body."?

If this sort of thing would happen in our family, I would not accept it. I would trust God to take care of it, I would pray about it and hand it over to God. I know that God would take the sin and sin temptation away. Why do we just accept these things instead of praying and letting God handle it. Now, maybe these people aren't christians, but the issue is that I was having the debate with a Christian.

I still believe that people can become demon possesed, maybe that is what has happened to these children...(I dont know, just throwing that passing thought out there.)

Anyway, there was much more to the conversation but I think I got the point across. She claims to be a Christian and we have discussions about the Bible and faith all the time. We usually agree. This time we did not. She hasn't been going to church. I go to a church that isn't afraid to teach the Bible, politically correct or not. I just want to show her that the more we accept sin into our lives, directly or indirectly, the more we are giving satan a hold on the world.

To me this is a morality issue, not a gender issue.

Any comments?...Bible verses very welcome!

LuvGod · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject:

One thing I forgot to mention. The concern I was having was what she said to some of my objections as to why it's okay. I questioned her about if she were out and saw two homosexuals kissing, or someone doing a sin that she doesn't agree with or wouldn't want to see, and she said she wouldnt say anything about it, live and let live. I have a problem with that. Not only do I not want to see it, but I especially don't want my kids to see it. I believe it's wrong. I want my kids to grow up with morals and not to be immune to these things and think that they're okay. If they grow up as children being exposed to such things, they could grow up thinking that it is everywhere, so it's okay.

Nobby · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject:

Hi LuvGod, it seems in the link that the parents little or nothing to discurrage the child! I'm not saying it would do any good. I just don't believe they put out their best effort to change the mind of the child.
The link was very sad, that familys have come to the point as to not teach their children proper morals.

LuvGod, thank you for your help over here, your a good sport, & a christian lady! Very Happy

Luvya Sis,

LuvGod · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject:

You're right, it seems they did nothing. Possibly encouraged it, even. It's like they just said okay, you wanna be a girl, go for it. I have a three and a half year old. If she were to say anything weird like that, I would surely sit her down and have a talk with her about it. Nothing mean, just explaining how she was born a girl and that's what God intended her to be. For several days in a row once, she pretended she was a dog. No problem in that, but if she started saying she wanted to be a dog forever I would explain to her why she can't be.

With this child (and others like HIM) I would have to guess that there may have been some kind of outside influence. Maybe a relative or TV. I know my kids like to immitate what they see on TV, good or bad. Or if a relative does something, they like to do it or immitate it. (Such as smoking, swearing, etc.) Or possibly the child had something bad happen, molestation, and it made the child think it was bad to be a boy or have male genitalia. I'm just throwing out ideas here. I surely can't see why someone would just accept it.

The first thing I would do is pray. So many things can be accomplished by handing your troubles to God.

Thank you Nobby for your sweet comments. Just looking for a kind place to talk seriously about some issues without getting shot down for being "religeous or a Jesus freak." That's happened on other boards and it's frustrating, people get involved in the religeon and the questions never get answered.

luvnlife · Goldfish Joined: 07 Apr 2007 Posts: 59

I know someone very well who was born a female (with ovaries & a uterus) but she also was born with a penis. Her mother had to make a decision on whether to raise this lovely wonderful little baby as a boy or girl. She made the decision to raise her as a female. She has had to take medication (hormones maybe?) because of her condition. Her mother agonized over this decision and even when she was raising this child she questioned sometimes whether she made the right decision. No one knew whether she would be able to have children or what to expect. As an adult, she is still a little bit of a tom boy (but so are many young women her age) but she does not look like a male at all.

She became a mother 3 years ago. Baby and mother are doing fine.

No one knows what caused this condition. I don't see her as a mistake. I knew her as a sweet young girl and I know her as a lovely young woman...someone I love... my niece.

If we start to judge, then where do we stop? Do we say an autistic child is not normal so not acceptable (as God doesn't make mistakes)? What about mentally retarded children? What about children like my 2nd cousin who died from Leukemia? Or my nephew who has lived with cancer and it's aftermath for 22 years?

I don't know the answer. I only know I have compassion for that little child.

Much Luv

LuvGod · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject:

I could imagine the agony of a parent in that situation. I always wondered what I would do if my child were born in that situation. And I don't believe that God made a mistake at all. It's a handicap maybe, but I suppose God meant for it to be that way for one reason or another. I believe that the world works that way, every thing happens for a reason or reasons. If we lived in a perfect world, we would be in heaven. But on the other hand, I don't think we should make the world a more sinful place, by choice.

I really try not to judge others. And in my converstion with Grandma, she said "well, I'm not going to judge." I wasn't judging homosexuals, transgenders or anyone else. Aren't we as Christians obligated to show correction of sin through ministry?

Matt 7:1-5 says

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and; behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” KJV

To me, that means if you are doing something just as bad or worse than the other person, correct yourself first so that you can better help correct the other person. Cast away your own sin so that you can help others cast away theirs. How can we help others to stop their sin if we aren't even going to admit that what they are doing is a sin because we don't want to offend anybody. God probably cringes every time someone says "live and let live". Why should a Christian be only concerned about their own sin and salvation? I feel that if we don't spread God's Word and his message to bring others to Him, then we are not doing what God has commanded us to do. Is that not a sin in itself by not following one of God's commands.

Was Jesus judging when he called someone "hypocrite" or "sinner" no he was stating the facts and ministering to them? In a way it is our Christian duty to judge. Not in the sense that most people think though. If we're not judging that sin is sin then we are accepting it. Judge the sin, not the sinner. And I agree with you on mentally handicapped or autistic etc. no one should judge anyone for appearance or ability or reasons of that nature or for the way God made them. Only to judge sins. I am not judging the child for whatever is going on in their little mind. But the issue at hand is a sin. And the parents failed to point out that it is sin and teach their child right from wrong. It's just sad and I hate to think how this child will suffer growing up because of it.

admin · Beloved Admin Joined: 28 Sep 2000 Posts: 88

Science disagrees with your position.

It is biology.

In Sorte Diaboli · Newbie Alert Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 4

luvgod wrote:
God probably cringes every time someone says "live and let live".

Well if god cringes every time someone says "live and let live" then he is going against his own principles (cringing on his own mind, choice, and creation). We are here to make our own choice (live and let live whether it is a sin or not, as long as the one that chooses their direction makes the choice on their own). FREE WILL!!!

You say that we should not allow homosexuality. If the one that CHOOSES to be a homosexual, CHOOSES it on their own, then so be it. They are not doing harm to others by that decision. I mean, it is their decision and thats what we are here to do right?

If we or god controls other peoples decisions, then we are defeating the entire purpose of "free choice" or gods creation plan.

luvnlife · Goldfish Joined: 07 Apr 2007 Posts: 59

I know that the bible does speak against certain lifestyles. However, I also know that we are told not to judge. We are reminded that our judgment is imperfect and it is not our job to pass judgment on others.

I recently attended the funeral of my ex-husband. We divorced about 11 years ago. I heard that a young man who was my nephew by this marriage was thinking about speaking at the funeral. He just happens to be gay. Most of my ex-husbands family is very religious. There was a lot of talk behind my nephews back by his relatives and apparently, many had disowned him. He is about 20 years old. When he saw me, he hesitated to come say hello to me. I asked him why. He didn't think I would accept him. I gave him a hug and told him I would not make things more difficult for him. He seemed relieved and hugged me back.

How better for a Christian to show someone the path to eternal life than by acting like a Christian? Is shunning others really Christian or does that type of behavior turn people off to Christianity?

Another question: If you turn your back on a young child or young adult because of a life-altering decision their parents made, how will that young person ever have a chance to enter the kingdom of God?

Luv

In Sorte Diaboli · Newbie Alert Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 4

Before I get started, please respond to my last post as far as controlling ones choice.

Luvnlife wrote:
However, I also know that we are told not to judge. We are reminded that our judgment is imperfect and it is not our job to pass judgment on others.

We are supposed to judge (be fruit inspectors) as long as we are no doing the same sin. Therefore I cannot tell someone to quit cheating on their spouse, if I am cheating as well. But I do have the authority to call them out on a sin that I am not doing myself.

As PEOPLE, we must tell others what we believe that they are doing wrong, hence the debate forum, or debates in general.

It seems from your stand point that you excepted your nephew as being gay when shouldn't have according to your belief system (christian religion). From your acceptance, it seems that you sinned instead of correcting them. But if you would have corrected them then diversity would have arisen, so which is the true way since you don't really know their mind and body (homosexual or not).

If one can be born a hermaphrodite, then can they not be born a homosexual? Please answer with your mind instead of scripture.