Born of water and Spirit

Nobby · Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:38 pm Post subject: Born of water and Spirit

___________Born of water and Spirit

Author of post is: MoJo

John 3:5 "Jesus said, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born
of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

I think this scripture is often used to support the idea that water baptism is neccessary and so I did a study on it.

John 19:34 "But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came thereout blood and water."

Zech 13:1 "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness."

Study of Zech 12 shows this to be the day Jesus is crucified. (quite an intersesting study in itself for timing of things)

Heb 10:22 ""let us draw near with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

Ezek 36:25 "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you."

Is 44:3 "For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my Spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thy offspring"

Clearly we can start to see that to be born of water and Spirit is not literal water and not literal water baptism, but the living fountain of water in Jesus.

Eph 5:26 "That he (Jesus) might santify and cleanse it (the church) with the washing of water by the word."

1 Pet 1:23 "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever."

John 4:14 "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst........"

Jer 2:13 "For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out of cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no water."

There's lots more on the true water, but clearly, I think this particular scripture (John 3:5) is not talking of literal water baptism. I also found it of note that water is mentioned first, meaning we must first be baptized by the living waters of Jesus ( Eph 5:26) and then by the Holy Spirit. if some received the Holy Sprit before literal water baptism as suggested by scripture, it would have to be assumed that they had received living waters first.

Thanks Mojo,

RevJP · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:35 am Post subject:

Okay Nobby/Mojo, let us look at the first verse:

watt · Newbie Alert Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 2

Post deleted

watt · Newbie Alert Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 2

HERE I AM TO SHARE “THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE”

Hey…

Brothers and Sisters in CHRIST,

I am new here….

GOD IS SO GOOD ALL THE TIME….
I really Thanks HIM for HIS LOVING KINDNESS.

Original post…”Born of water and Spirit” this is very interesting.........

GOD gave me the KEY how to enter into HIS KINGDOM….waw…beautiful!!!

Beyond my understanding…no word to describe HIS LOVING KINDNESS, HIS WISDOM…… I would like to share with you all… "THE KEY”

This is “” THE KEY”

At river of Jordan, JESUS came to JOHN to be baptized by HIM, but JOHN tried to prevent JESUS……

But JESUS answered HIM, “LET IT BE LIKE THAT FOR NOW, WE MUST DO JUSTICE TO GOD PLAN.” JOHN agreed. (MATTHEW 3:15)

See!!! JESUS said “WE MUST DO JUSTICE TO GOD PLAN.”…….

As a real follower of JESUS.. WE MUST DO JUSTICE TO GOD PLAN.

MAY GOD BLESS

AMEN

FROM WATT

RevJP · Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:54 am Post subject:

So how do we do that?

writer · Newbie Alert Joined: 17 Mar 2008 Posts: 4

"the idea that water baptism is neccessary."
Necessary for....?

"born of water and Spirit is not literal water and not literal water baptism, but the living fountain of water in Jesus."
To the contrary: "water and Spirit" refers Nicodemus the Pharisee to what John before told the Pharisees: "I baptize you in water, He'll baptize you in the Spirit..."
As does the end of John 3

"first be baptized by the living waters of Jesus ( Eph 5:26) and then by the Holy Spirit."
Jesus' living waters IS His Spirit
John 7:37-39.
Which is another reason water = water (baptism) in John 3:5

"the meaning of being 'born again', one birth by water (physical birth) and a new birth of the spirit."
To the contrary, in addition to John 3:5's reference to John 1:33 and 3:22, 34: it's redundant, unnecessary, and even silly to state: "Unless one's born and born of the Spirit one can't enter into the kingdom of God"

"I've not seen this versed used primarily as a support for baptism"
The earliest post-apostolic Christian writings on John 3:5 all understand water = baptism there.

Thanks