Abortion is the taking of a life with out reason

RevJP · Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:34 pm Post subject:

Let's try looking at the whole passage:

Exodus 21:22 "If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall (14) pay as the judges decide.
23 "But if there is any further injury, (15) then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,
24 (16) eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Clearly this verse is not speaking of abortion - the termination of a pregancy in the womb. It is listing punishment and reparation for damages to slave property.

Van · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:18 pm Post subject:

Clearly someone has caused the birth of the child. It is not clear whether this birth brought forth a live baby or a dead baby or a baby that dies shortly after birth because it was not viable.

I read the passage to say the birth might be of a viable live baby, indicating no other harm except for the pre-mature birth. Or if the baby dies, then a life for a life is the penality.

Those advocating abortion natually see it differently, but judge for yourselves.

RevJP · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:17 am Post subject:

Well, I don't advocate abortion and I see it differently.

Van · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:35 am Post subject:

RevJp, are you not familiar with the Biblical concept of if you are not with us, you are against us? The pro-abortion forces sometimes say, "While I am personally against abortion, I support abortion as something that should be legal, safe and rare." But then they oppose the partial birth abortion ban, demonstrating their stance as a charade. What they really advocate is abortion on demand.

Abortion is wrong, the Bible teaches that abortion is wrong, as in the above passage and in passages such as "Thou shall not kill" and passages such as consider others more important than ourselves. Abortion teaches that others (unborn babies) are less important than ourselves. The Bible says we should not shed innocent blood, yet abortion spills the most innocent blood of all.
Life begins at conception, and that life is a gift from God. We should protect it and nurture it and keep in safe in the womb.

In the example of John the Baptist, the Bible teaches that the preborn child is called a baby by the inspired author of scripture, with spiritual discernment, jumping for joy at the presence of the mother of God. In the examples of David, Jeremiah, and Paul, God sets them aside "from the womb" teaching that God views us as individuals prior to birth. The example of Zechariah 12:1 teaches that God forms our spirit within us, not prior to our physical existence, therefore demonstrating our spirit gives our physical body life from conception. For when spirit departs, the body dies.

In summary, our individual human life begins at conception, we are alive in the womb, and covered by God's command that thou shall not kill.

RevJP · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:41 pm Post subject:

Well... since we have hashed and rehashed this time and again it seems almost silly to go through it again. But... another board another fray...

I will come back to this topic later with the specifics because now is family time and I loathe to spend it elsewhere.

But suffice it to say for now: While I may agree that abortion is wrong, I disagree with what you've said and how you've said it. You have stated your opinion, you have presented it as a commandment of God, Which it is not. God did not command "Though shalt not kill" and you know it as well as I do.

Nothing in the bible teaches that abortion is wrong, nor does it say that life begins at conception. That is your interpretation of doctrine. I see nothing wrong with your interpretation but be honest enough to call it what it is - doctrine. A belief derived by man from scriptural reference.

Okay, enough for now...

Van · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:56 pm Post subject:

I provided the scriptures that teach the doctrine, either by reference or by quote or paraphrase.

The KJV says (Exodus 20:13) Thou shalt not kill.
The NASB says (Exodus 20:13) You shall not murder
The Hebrew word transliterated as ratsach means to murder, slay or kill. The idea is not to kill other human beings on ones own volition.

And yes we have been through this all before. You assert that my views on what the bible teaches about abortion are just my opinion and therefore your opinion is just as valid. This is a non starter. Either the bible teaches abortion is wrong or it doesn't and your opinion or mine does not change this fact. I provided the texts that I think any reasonable person would understand as teaching my position.

Babies less than 3 months gestation can move their head and limbs, have brain wave activity and can respond to stimulus, and of course have a little beating heart. They are alive and abortion kills them and therefore violates Exodus 20:13. Therefore the bible teaches that abortion is wrong. Pretty simple really.

RevJP · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:05 am Post subject:

Not that simple really, even without your inflamatory rhetoric.

'Thou shall not commit murder' is the commandment. We have discussed the differences between kill and murder and even you agree that kill is a generalized term that does not jive with the meaning of scripture.

I assert that your views on abortion are honestly based on what you feel the scripture teaches. You feel abortion is murder and thus the bible teaches against abortion - I have not argued your contention as stated. What I have argued is your insistence that God commands against abortion or that the bible 'says' abortion is wrong.

It is a simple point really. If I were to say that eating meat was a sin because the commandment "thou shalt not kill' precludes us from killing animals to gain their flesh for substenance, you would quite readily and correctly, dispute my claim and explain the truth of the commandment.

That is what I am doing here. Explaining the truth of your position. The truth is:

You have taken Point A, combined it with Point B and C, and have concluded that A+B+C=abortion is wrong. I do not dispute your math, I merely dispute your presentation of your conclusions as 'God's word, or His commandment.

I have made my position on the qualification of murder and why it is wrong, I believe the involvment of the eternal soul is at issue, consequently I am undecided as to the classification of abortion as murder. You chose to take this and call me an advocate for abortion because I am either 'with your or against you". Show me scripture.

paul · Little Goldfish Joined: 04 Oct 2003 Posts: 51

why would you want to abort a child you have just created?
isn't it only for selfish reasons really?
i know you can argue about someone who's raped ,but couldn't this child be a great child of God with the love of God passed through mother to child.
some times great things can come from a bad experience.
has God given the gift of creation to be abused in such a way?
God bless.
paul

Solo23 · Not So Newbie Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 6

I believe what you all here are trying to do is justify killing a life. Its a life, a human life, there aren't monkeys or fish in there, its a human.

A fish in a egg is still a fish. Not a human, A puppy in the womb is still a puppy, not a fish. Point being, you are killing a human no matter what. Let's get that clear. So you are trying to nock off a human life and give just reasons for it. Adoption is always an option.

I mean, You wouldn't have like to have been aborted, now would you?

RevJP · Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:07 am Post subject:

Solo,

Lets look at what you are saying and see if we can get some clarification on things, shall we?

Solo23 · Not So Newbie Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 6

I was just giving my veiw on the matter, and my apology for misreading.