Prove there is a God...

metothezero · Tadpole Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 28

Now normally, given the rules of debate, the burden of proof would be upon me, the one making the claim. But I am asking for these rules to be ignored momentarily for a discussion to get started. Could any Christians posting on this board, adequetely prove to me that there is a God? Now I will not be like some, and ignore blatant truths and logics, but I would like a debate to get started for this very purpose. Please, do I have any volunteers?

Philosophically, Historically, Scientifically...any would be great, Philosophically, is my cup of tea though.

Van · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:25 pm Post subject:

First off, you premise is off. No one can prove anything to someone who rejects the evidence. All a person can do is provide the evidence for the existence of God, that was and is sufficient for many to base their faith. You can say that is no proof, that the evidence is not compelling and all that jazz.

metothezero · Tadpole Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 28

Van, you are attempting to prove your God based upon the premise that the book you call Holy is true. You have given me scriptural 'proof' as to the characteristics of your God, while it all sounds good and dandy, and while it could be true, perhaps, it is still fanciful imagination.

The only thing that I saw that appeared to be any shimmer of an attempt on your part to even hint a logic or science is this statement...

admin · Beloved Admin Joined: 28 Sep 2000 Posts: 88

Just my two cents....it's not something you can prove to anyone. However, you can give people tools to prove it to themselves.

metothezero · Tadpole Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 28

Van · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:13 am Post subject:

Thankyou admin, that is also what I think and indicated in my first post in this thread.

paul · Little Goldfish Joined: 04 Oct 2003 Posts: 51

there is proof all around us ,creation ,how we think ,why we all search for God or try to understand His existence in some way.
i'm not sure if anyone can really live with not wondering if there is a higher being or creator.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

there is of course the unslefish pure love that God offers us and that we become fullfilled with ,our purpose then is to show this to others by our actions and by wanting the same for them out of love.
the word of God is like our instruction manual and holds all truth to the believer.

it is all about faith mind and accepting His love by repenting of our old lives and wanting God to take control and to want to serve Him above all things.

the proof is there ,when you give your life to Christ your eyes and your heart is opened and everything becomes so much clearer.

the only proof i can think you have as an unbeliever is that you have no answers ,no one who you can believe to give you complete truth ,for no one really knows any more than anyone else ,and many have their own agenda.

there is nothing that offers you complete unselfish answers and love like Gods word.

creation ,how long has man been trying to figure out creation ,and how many different explanations have they come up with over the years.

the bible has been there since moses ,and all the other books talk of exactly the same things and refer to and compliment each other ,and earlier books talk of things that were yet to be written of and happen ,and when you really start understanding the word you will see how many things are coming true from the word today.

the proof has always been there ,but the unbeliever chooses not to believe.

man will go round in circles trying to explain the things which only came from God.
they will ignore the one thing right in front of them that holds all the answers.

if you don't believe in Him how can you understand the things of Him?

God bless.

metothezero · Tadpole Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 28

Folks, I am a Christian, I believe that God does exist. But I also believe that this faith that I have in this God can be proven, Philosophically and Scientifically. I attempted to play devil's advocate in this instance, I wanted other Christians to attempt to prove God to me, while I acted as though I was an unbeliever. If this is all that would be given to an unbeliever, than we are in trouble.

Yes, people cannot go through life without wondering if there is something more powerful than they. The Greeks knew this, The Romans did as well, so did the Norse man, as well as every other primitive culture. That is why we have Zeus, Pluto, and Thor. But if someone truly came to you, wanting to know why the God of Christianity is the God that they should put their faith in, would you seriously tell them to 'look around', without going into why he is true?

There have been four basice arguments for the existence of God. Cosmological (creation), Teleological (design), Axiological (moral law), and Ontological (being).

Here is an exerpt from Norman Geisler's book 'When Skeptics Ask'...

RevJP · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:15 pm Post subject:

Here's my two cents:

I have no empiracle proof that God exists, nor do I require any. I believe He exists - I have FAITH that He exists, and that is what makes the truth all the more convincing to me. I am not out to PROVE God exists to anyone who requires proof, for it would be a fruitless endeavor. If they choose to accept the 'proof' given then their belief would be based on that which they can quantify and it would not be a redeeming faith.

Thier 'bleief' would be worthless and subject to the winds of change - any other conflicting evidence comes along and they go with it.

The Spirit of God provides the conviction of faith, provides the proof. I require nothing more.

metothezero · Tadpole Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 28

So if a philosophically minded person, who over analyzes EVERYTHING, were wanting to know why you believe in God, you would be satisfied with telling him that he does because you must have faith that he does? Why then should they not believe in Big Foot, or the Loch Ness, or Allah, these take faith as well. But these can be proven false, as God can be proven true. For a child a simple answer of faith and elementary ideas of who God is, and what he is, but we are no longer children, neither should we think as children.

What also of a person who has been completely mistreated as a child, molested, raped, sodomized, tortured, having nothing. All their life has been a living Hell, and they think of life as the bottom of the crap hole, with no meaning whatsoever and no reason to live. You are going to tell him that he should believe in God, because he should have faith. Without also telling him that the pain and suffering that he experiences is not because there is no meaning, but because there is A meaning. And the pain that has been inflicted upon him is not because there is nothing, but because the Something created everything allowed this creation to express themselves, and have the freedom that he chose for them to have.

I'm sorry, I just cannot accept basic, Sunday school answers, I believe there is a God, not only because I feel the God, but because I know the God is there. And for someone who does not have the Spirit living inside of him, he cannot feel him, he cannot know God is true by feeling, so you are only left with explaining, and proving God by the knowledge.

RevJP · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:47 am Post subject:

Philisophical discussions of the existence of God and the nature of faith are not empirical proof, nor evidence.

My remarks reflect soley on the idea of "Prove to me God exists, show me indisputable evidence, and I will believe". This I cannot do. I can discuss theology, the truth of scripture, the basis of my believe in God based on that scripture. But I cannot, nor would I wish to, give solid empiracle evidence in the existence of God.

admin · Beloved Admin Joined: 28 Sep 2000 Posts: 88

You'll find what you want to find....

RevJP · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:33 am Post subject:

or what you are given to find by Him.

Some of us have struggled long to disbelieve - for various reasons - only to be drawn back to Him. Seems to me it is often harder to believe than not to believe, an easier path to tread.