One True God Manifesting Himself in Three Unique Ways

shepreach · Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 7:26 am Post subject:

Meto,
Sorry, I didn’t mean to run out on you but hubby called. I’ll try to do this more slowly so I can think as I type. You can tell the difference – if it capitalizes I’m thinking because I’m using word and it does it for me. If not, I’m posting off the top of my head and my dyslexia can get in the way. That’s not an excuse, just an explanation.

At creation there were 3 but only the Father was manifest, thus the all the Father statement.

In the gospels, we see Jesus but all 3 are there. Because Jesus is God, all are also Jesus.

After the ascension, we see the activity of the Spirit but all 3 are there. Because the Spirit is God, all are also Spirit.

I can’t see separate parts because all 3 are always there working together. It goes like this: from God, the Father, through Jesus, the Son, by the Spirit. You don’t get one of them without the other two.

metothezero · Tadpole Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 28

MoJo · Big Guppy Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 48 Location: Canada

metothezero · Tadpole Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 28

Guest · Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 9:03 am Post subject: modalism

OK, this concept of One God manifesting Himself in three unique ways is called modalism. It has been around for a long time. poking its head up from time to time. It is also called patripassianism, monarchianism or sabellianism, and 1st popped up in the 3rd century, but was quickly squashed. This stresses the unity of God to the point of denying the trinity.

This is a very important and crucial issue, and should not be taken lightly. Now that said, I am not "appalled" that so many on this forum do not subscribe to the trinity, though I am certainly surprised.

I need to be clear exactly what I mean by the "trinity" or "tri-iunity," as Tertullian first expressed it.

I believe that the Bible teaches that God is a trinity of Persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son, nor is the Son the same person as the Holy Spirit nor the Holy Spirit the same person as the Father. They are not three Gods or three distinct beings. Yet they are three distinct persons, and collectively and individually they are all the one God - One being. Each in scripture are described as having a will, speaking, expressing emotions, etc., and these are demonstrations of their personhood. They are individually in perfect harmony with one another and consist of one substance. They are co-eternal, co-equal, and co-powerful. One might even refer to a "fellowship" of the Godhead.

The way that some Christians describe the trinity is actually closer to what is called "modalism." Modalism is a reference to the members of the trinity as different modes or forms of being, yet only One person. IOW, in such a theology God has expressed Himself in different forms. And that is what is often understood by Christians when speaking of the trinity or tri-unity. But it is not biblical, IMO.

Many distortions of the trinity have been taught over the years, including that God is but one person, the Father, with Jesus as a creation and the Holy Spirit as a force (Jehovah's Witnesses). Neither is He one Person who took on three consecutive forms, i.e., the Father, became the Son, who became the Holy Spirit. Nor is God the divine nature of the Son (where Jesus had a human nature perceived as the Son and a divine nature perceived as the Father (Oneness theology). Nor is the Trinity an office held by three separate Gods (Mormonism), nor the modalism I mentioned above.

What is being taught in this thread has the potential to affecting one's view of Jesus Christ as well. If one reaches a point of describing Jesus as merely an expression or mode/form of the Father/God, then that is no longer even Christian - such theology has no power to save from sin.

When my daughter was 3 years old, I asked her Who Jesus was. Her response? She said, "Jesus is God and God is Jesus." Now, I was impressed that she could express herself so well. At the time, I did not want to attempt to set her theology straight, yet many Christians today get by with just such a view of the Godhead. And what is being taught here has the potential for confusing such young believers.

Let's look at what the Bible says about it. I like the following passage on the trinity because it is often ignored, so let's start there:

John 7:37-39 - “On the last and most important day of the festival, Jesus stood up and cried out, "If anyone is thirsty, he should come to Me and drink! The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, will have streams of living water flow from deep within him." He said this about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were going to receive, for the Spirit had not yet been received, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.

It is vital to know the Person or Persons who wrote the Bible. The validity of a letter or a document is not determined by its own intrinsic value but by the character or moral fiber of the person who wrote it. It is impossible to maintain a belief in someone and simultaneously to reject his personal biography. So similarly, everyone who maintains that he believes in Jesus Christ, yet denies His deity or the individual personage of the Holy Spirit as God can be said to be disavowing the moral fiber or character of the Author of the Bible.

That assumes, of course, that it is clearly taught in scripture that the Holy Spirit is an individual Person - a member of the Godhead. I maintain that the deity and individual Personage of the Spirit is taught in scripture. All this to make it clear that this issue should not be taken lightly.

Who is the Author?
Although the word “trinity” never appears in the Bible - a fact many have used to discredit the validity of this doctrine - it is not at all difficult to prove that three Persons - Deities - were involved in producing it. Consider the following scriptures regarding the activity of the Holy Spirit:

2 Peter 1: 21 - “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

According to John 16:8, the Holy Spirit was sent to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment; but He will never move outside of the bounds of the Bible when leading a sinner to faith in Jesus Christ. How can anyone expect to be convicted of sin by the 3rd Person in the trinity if they reject that He is a member of the trinity? In the same breath one might similarly ask, how can anyone expect to be cleansed of their sins if they regard Jesus Christ merely as one of God’s creations? God strictly forbids anyone to worship a created being because it is nothing else than idolatry. So if the trinity is clearly taught in scripture, then to reject the deity of the Holy Spirit may have serious soteriological consequences as well.

OK the word "trinity" isn't used in the Bible, nor is any such unified concept clearly taught anywhere in scripture. But what is clear in the NT and also the OT (though not clear) is that the Father is God, Jesus is God & the Holy Spirit is also God. Yet other scriptures are clear that there is but one God. Put those two clear teachings together and we are left with the concept of a "tri-unity" or "trinity." It was first clearly expressed by Tertullian in about 210AD as a response to Sabellius.

There are a few clear references to the three members of the Godhead together:

Luke 3:21, 22 NRSV Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, "You are my Son, the Beloved; with you I am well pleased.
(You can see the Father, Son and Spirit all 3 in this story.)

Matt. 28: 19, 20 HCSB Go, therefore, and (or "While you are going") make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
(Now, why would you baptize believers in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit if the Spirit was just either the spirit of the Father or the spirit of the Son. Also note that "name" is singular, not plural. I do agree, BTW, that sometimes when the Greek term pneumatos is used in the NT that it refers to "spirit" and at other times "Spirit." Sometimes pneumatos is referring to the "spirit" of the Father, and sometimes the Bible refers to the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of the Father or the Son. But this verse is a critical one... Based on this verse, I do not see how the Holy Spirit can be denied to be a distinct Person.)

2 Corin. 13:13 HCSB The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with all of you.
(Again, why refer to all three Persons of the Trinity? It doesn't make any sense. If only the Son and the Father are God, then why mention the Spirit?)

Here are a couple of crucial passages relating to the Personhood of the Spirit:
Acts 5:3, 4 HCSB Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the proceeds from the field? Wasn't it yours while you possessed it? And after it was sold, wasn't it at your disposal? Why is it that you planned this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God!"
(So, the Holy Spirit is God, and is referred to here as a Person - who can be lied to.)

Ephesians 4:30 - And don't grieve God's Holy Spirit, who sealed you for the day of redemption.
(Only a person can be grieved. He has feelings. The Holy Spirit sealed us [see also Eph.1:13, 14] Now, why would you talk about the spirit of a person sealing something? It doesn't make sense.)

Now, a friend of mine who is familiar with the Hebrew text gave me the following arguments once. (I am not familiar with Hebrew.) ->

shepreach · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 2:11 pm Post subject:

There are three-Father, Son. And Spirit-but you cannot separate them. When one is present so are the other two. It’s not the Father creates, the Son redeems, and the Spirit sustains – all three do this. It’s not one person wearing 3 hats or having 3 jobs; it’s not the Father is ice, the Son is water, and the Spirit is vapor but all are H2O; it’s not the “Three Faces of Eve”. The three work together, so no matter which one you are talking about you can be sure that the other two are right there too. You can’t have one without the others.

MoJo · Big Guppy Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 48 Location: Canada

I like your explanation, shepreach, but how would you explain that only Jesus is the way and only Jesus is the mediator between man and God if all three are present all the time. It sort of does away with the neccessity of a mediator which by definition stands between two different parties. Very Happy

shepreach · Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 7:03 pm Post subject:

mojo,
i have some ideas on the mediator part but i can't concentrate on right now. i get back to it asap.

Nobby · Last edited by Nobby on Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:18 am; edited 3 times in total

First off the post above Posted by "Guest" is Capt Mercury Exclamation

I didn't have the permissions shut off to guests. I ask him to join, but so far he hasn't! Smile

shepreach · Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 10:16 pm Post subject:

Jesus is not a mediator between two persons (man and God). Man and God did not need to be brought together. It was not man’s humanity which separated him from God’s presence. It was the sinfulness that Adam’s disobedience caused. Because of Adam’s action in eating the fruit, the entire planet was tainted by sin, so everything on or in it became subject to death and even the ground was cursed.

What was needed afterward was a way to bring the righteousness (life) of God into contact with the sinfulness (death) of man. So that man could again walk in the presence of his Maker. God chose a people to work through beginning with Abraham. He used many men as mediators, or a bridge, between Himself and Israel. The problem was that the connection between God and His people kept dying. There was no permanent way to keep God’s people free from the taint of sin. Israel tried, and when there was a connection through a prophet, priest, or king they did well. But when the leader died they went back to their old sinful ways.

So the Word of God came in the flesh as a human baby, birthed from a virgin (uncontaminated) womb, to build a permanent bridge between the sinfulness of humanity and the righteousness of God. And this bridge was not just for Israel, though they had first choice, but for the entire world if they wanted it. What Jesus did changes sin into righteousness. It cancels the death sentence Adam began. It satisfies the word “do not eat” that God spoke to Adam by the willing sacrifice of the Word made flesh.

Since there is only one bridge of course there is only one way to God. The way we get there is through the Word of God which is Jesus. And since this word no longer walks among us in the flesh, He sent the one thing that would bring us back to the place we were when he created Adam—His breath (the Holy Spirit).

Nobby

Solo23 · Not So Newbie Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 6

Let me just point this out, clear something up...I didn't read all of the posts, but basicly here is my thought.

At frist, I didn't believe in it, because I thought it just couldn't happen.

Untill my pastor pointed something out to me, and that is this....

Water is water, But it is also Ice, and steam aswell. But they all have one thing in comon, they all have water. they all are water, just in different fourms. They all contain H2O, intresting huh?

That really helped me out and I hope it helps you out!

Godbless,

Solo

John the Baptist · Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:36 pm Post subject:

---John

biblejunkie · Newbie Alert Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 4

Hello all!

Just had some thoughts on this subject of the Godhead:

1) If God is a Spirit (John 4:24), there is only one Spirit (Eph 4:4), and that one God (Deut 6:4) is the Father (Isaiah 63:16), then how can we separate the Father from the Spirit?

Seems to me we're talking about 2 relationships to man (like how a man is a father and a husband, but yet not 2 different people)

2) Who is on the throne in Revelation? It says in Rev 4 that there is only one throne and that Jesus is on the throne. If we have 3 beings on 3 thrones, do we then have 3 gods?

3) Doesn't all of the fulness of the Godhead dwell in Jesus? (Colossians 2:9) Wouldn't that mean that everything that God is dwells in Jesus?

Just throwing a few thoughts out there...